I have been thinking about this for a long time, and it's really more of a rhetorical question, but I welcome your feedback. When does marriage become a resignation from yourself?
Maybe I should give a little background to my query...I have had multiple conversations with friends and acquaintances regarding either impending marriages or existing marriages that are taking place or exist for reasons other than the desire to be with each other. I know what many of you are thinking...maybe along the lines of "it isn't always easy", "marriage is hard", "love is a choice" and maybe just plain old " divorce is a sin". I know this. But I am trying to understand what makes a marriage at the point when one or both of the committed parties no longer wants in, they can't stand each other, they are getting married because it is the "right thing to do", one treats the other with ultimate disdain and disrespect, infidelity exists, etc... Why get married or stay married when the marriage is a sham? How is that a celebration or analogy of Christ and the church?
Now, don't misunderstand, I am not talking about couples who have "issues", we all do and we pray or seek counseling-sometimes both. We try to increase communication becasue we genuinely love and respect our spouse and want the realationship to work, we haven't thrown in the towel and resigned ourselves to the fact that we are no longer or have ever been interested in cultivating a robust and meaningful relationship with the other person. A relationship where everything else is incidental; jobs, friends, children, homes, hobbies, ... everyting stems from the base which is the union. This seems so rare, an authentic couple with this type of relationship. Is it just too hard? Is it really just a pipe dream that you can stay crazy about the same person for the rest of your life? I know there are ups and downs, but I mean overall. At the end of the day you are so glad you married your spouse and despite annoyances, you are glad that you are with them.
It seems there comes a point when you decide to stay or to take the plunge without any real love, and that it is more about a resignation to the wants, needs, or desires that you once had. I don't know, maybe low self-esteem, maybe pressure from well meaning peers and family,maybe guilt. I am not advocating hedonism here, but I am trying to exercise some logic.
I'm stumped.
Well, I'm not sure if I can help at all, but these are some things your post made me think of.
ReplyDeleteI think first of all that we live in a me-centered world. In marriages this is evident when one spouse might continually look at how the other spouse is not meeting their needs or desires. Instead of focusing on each other, the me-centeredness shifts the focus and as a result one can be left feeling dissatisfied and affronted that their needs were not considered or met. That love then becomes "diluted" because the spouse is defensive and sensitive to anything the other does that is perceived as contrary. Could human love stand up to that kind of me-centered scrutiny? Not easily.
You asked if we can truly love someone the rest of our life (Or something like that). I think we can. But I don't think our love stays the same. I think in the beginning we are so in love with being in romantic love that it's fun and generally easy to love our boyfriend, fiance, or spouse. We've been searching for this person and here they are. Such bliss. Before long, though, we begin to take for granted the very things we loved them so much for in the beginning. We forget those things and move on to what irritates us (me-centered). I think that it takes effort to remind yourself of the things you loved about your spouse. To me it involves time alone together (date nights and trips away), visiting the past and good memories, and making lots more memories together (without the kids). To be honest I think that one probably doesn't get back that awesome new romantic love that we first had, but in its place we get something richer, deeper, more meaningful. Like Kate Nash's lyrics where she says that she wants someone to know she really wants three things of sugar when she says two.
As far as the other things you mention: abuse, disdain, etc. I don't know. I do believe that God made marriage to last, but also know that sometimes it doesn't. For me that would have to be a decision of much deep prayer and guidance from other strong Christians.
Did I talk about what you were looking for, or was that really off the mark? :)
Tiff- I agree with what you have posted, but I think I am looking more at relationships that are not based on that initial love, or if they were, then ones where that is totally gone with disregard for the other person, the relationship, and no real Christian perspective. Or conversely, marrying someone you don't have that eros love for and doing it out of defeat because it is the right thing to do, especially in Christian circles. I believe this to be a mockery of marriage and have a hard time being an advocate of that. Ii don't know how to reconcile that with a Christian perspective.
ReplyDeleteokay, I get it. :) Sorry if I took up all the available comment space on unasked questions! :)
ReplyDeleteI’ve been thinking a lot about your post, and for what their worth, here are a couple of my thoughts…
ReplyDeleteI don’t think that people should get married because they slept together and feel guilty about it, because they got pregnant, because they have great chemistry, or any other number of reasons. I think that marriage is picking out someone with whom you can make the commitment that the two of you will face the rest of your lives together as a team, committed to loving one another (although liking each other may come and go) – no matter what. Sexual chemistry helps… :)
That being said, a lot of marriages don’t start with that goal. I don’t think that means that marriage is doomed, but it may take a lot more work. I think that’s where it can become a true reflection of Christ, as I am willing to stay and love even the most unlovely aspects of my mate and am loved despite my own shortcomings – and I’m not talking about infatuation but the conscious decision to experience and express the irrational love that can only really come from the Source. (Caveat: I think some marriages need to end or at least face a very significant pause button given abuse, etc.)
I don’t believe, however, that a marriage in which “everything else is incidental; jobs, friends, children, homes, hobbies, ... everything stems from the base which is the union” would be truly healthy.
I would be concerned that this kind of relationship could lead to a sublimation of self or unrealistic expectations that could never be met. The desire to “cultivate a robust and meaningful relationship with the other person” can be transitory, since I am fallible. Sharing my life with another person is a wonderful perk of living. However, I think these things you describe are simply an expression of shared interests and values, both of which definitely make living with someone else easier, but I don’t think that they are definitely a requirement for a satisfying relationship.
I don’t think that human relationships are meant to carry this kind of weight. I think my relationship with God is that base, which can then be reflected and acted out within my physical, emotional and spiritual union with another person, but it definitely isn’t the source of who I am or am becoming.
I think there are some circumstances in which I feel more me, but even when I’m in the middle of yelling at my kids or am faced with a situation in which I feel very uncomfortable, this is still me – just me in a place I don’t enjoy as much. I think that staying married often falls into this category. I don’t always enjoy the experience of being married; but, if my identity does not come from the union, is only expressed within the union, the occasional instability or difficulty within the union can’t threaten who I am.
I don’t think being married is supposed to make me feel completely fulfilled or understood. I think it can be a wonderful gift and provide a sense of security that this one person is going to keep me company forever and in the meantime we can share our experiences. I think our sexual drives and shared interests may make this more fun sometimes (although even these take maintenance), but being Tommy’s wife is just one aspect of who I am, not the core of my identity.
This blog would make great fodder for a real discussion. All the things I want to say or ask go well beyond the scope of a response...I didn't think I would get such good and well thought out feedback (on a blog, I should have known better from you guys though).
ReplyDeleteThere are many things that you posted that I agree with, however there are a few that I don't. One thing that I don't believe and want to clarify is that I am not suggesting that a marriage should be all fulfilling and for staking an identity, far from it. I just think that there should be more to a marriage than just sucking it up and calling good enough, good enough. I do believe that we need to cultivate robust and meaningful relationships with others, but most especially our mate. You are right, we are fallible, but that doesn't mean we are incapable.
Anyway, lots more points I would love to discuss, we will have to actually get together, hint hint.
The motivation for the blog is sort of difficult to describe. It has come from the exposure to marriages that don't seem to be based on any type of love, but out of convenience. Strictly convenience... or codependence. Probably low self esteem too. Perhaps all three. People who seemed to have resigned themselves to the fact that this is all there is and this is going to have to be good enough. Not because they share a love of God and choose to love the unlovely, or stay committed because it is good witness. And I compare. Good, bad, wrong or indifferent, I do. I look at those I know who love their mate (of course there are hard times, doubts and the like) some love God, some don't. But they are committed because they want to cultivate the relationship, not treat it like the ugly neighbor kid and neglect it and call it names behind closed doors.
Do you know what I mean?
No?
We should talk.
Love ya!
Ok...maybe I shouldn't comment given my current circumstances. You certainly have me thinking, and thinking about a topic that I only seem to circle around, I almost feel afraid to really analyze what I think. I'm the Christian with a failed marriage. I wasn't physically abused, so do I have grounds for a divorce? I can tell you that the marriage I had was not what God intended. I came to the point where I wondered if it was better to give up the person I had become...give up my dreams...my talents, my gifts...the person I felt God was developing in order to stay in my marriage just because it was the "right" thing to do. The ideal would have been that my husband would have grown along side of me, taken the time to know me, accept me for who I was and who I was becoming. Instead every core piece of me was met with conflict...my desire to be a mom, my desire to be involved with my family, my desire to work in the career I absolutely love, my personal faith and expression of that faith. I don't know...I do agree that we live in a "me" centered culture. So was I selfish? Should I have remained content to stay in my marriage and hope that one day it would all work out? The possibility that 50 years could pass and nothing would have changed...what then? Regret that I hadn't lived my life to it's fullest, that I hadn't become the person God intended? Complicated huh? If you guys get together can I tag along??? I value each of your perspectives.
ReplyDeleteI've been contemplating what I could contribute to this conversation, given that I am a single 19 year old. This is what I've come up with - take it or leave it.
ReplyDeleteI have seen these relationships where two people probably began with the best intentions. However, in the end were totally incompatible with each other and the marriage ended.
Divorce is messy and painful stuff and nobody likes it. But, call me a heretic, I think it was better for everyone involved, even for my brothers and I.
A lot of time has passed since my parents divorced (almost ten years now) and both my parents have moved on... One parent began a Christ centered relationship, and as imperfect as it is sometimes, it is the sort I would like to have someday. The other parent got to discover who she really is (totally another story for another day). The thing is they are both happier than they were ten years ago.
As for the abuse or other "excuses" for divorce - there was none in my parents' marriage, but I think that God will forgive anything. I think we would be telling God that He died in vain if we said He couldn't forgive two people who get a divorce. I think He is bigger than all of this.
I think that both of you (Anna and SND) should comment, and you have different perspectives on this whole thing. I don't think that anyone is untouched by failed relationships or marriages, whether they are our own or those close to us. We can learn valuable lessons on how to proceed through the minefield of human to human interaction.
ReplyDeleteThere is no doubt that there are many times a marriage is better off being dissolved than not. And there is biblical support of some reasons that would "excuse" (for lack of a better term) the divorce. There are far more reasons why marriages should not happen in the first place.
I become frustrated when the humanistic perspective is ignored. Granted, i don't have that strong of a Christian perspective right now, but I have always struggled with the disposal of all things human. Sometimes I think we discard or at least discount the human condition altogether, like it is a withered and gangrenous appendage that should be removed from the otherwise glowing body. But I digress...that is a whole other topic of which would surely be too much for a blog.
hey Teresa! It's Kathy...after much reading of your post (and thanks by the way for the visual thesaurus...I could not have deciphered your post any other way I'm so dumbed down!), I personally think that sometimes we actually resign ourselves to a certain extent even before marriage. I say that because in the early days, months, and perhaps even years of a relationship, we are so enamored with the being in the relationship, that we really only think in terms of the moment, and may not feel totally comfortable in being ourselves, whether it's done to impress the other, or out of fear or embarassment of what the other may think of the "real" person. Maybe it goes on to the point that it's just habit but can resurface once you are confident in the relationship lasting. I think that too much emphasis is placed on the wedding and not enough on the marriage. I, for one, had no idea what a marriage should be, nor did I ever witness one during my childhood years. I had in my mind what I thought marriage was, but no one ever really tells you that marriage is something that you have to work at, and when you are swept up in the planning of the wedding and everything that comes with it, you are hardly going to think "what will we talk about in a year, five years or 50 years". And you certainly probably never think that perhaps you might not be physically attracted to the person in that amount of time, or they to you, or that you might be attracted to them, but just too stinking tired from the stresses of the day to act upon it. All of those things come so naturally in the beginning because it is new & fresh, and I guess keeping it fresh, if not new, is the struggle many people face. From someone who is on her seconf marriage, I don't really seem to have it any more figured out this time than I did the last time with the exception of I do see myself growing old(er)with this one and staying together forever, sometimes it's just a question of will we be husband and wife or more like room mates.
ReplyDeleteAs for the Biblical aspect of marriage & all that stuff, I'm still learning it, and have absolutely no insight into. My other half is not at all interested in that aspect, which makes it harder for me, but that's is just another struggle of marriage, I guess.
Anyway, I'm sure I'm way off topic...I'm kind of known to do that. And who knows, perhaps I was never on topic to begin with.